设为首页收藏本站|繁體中文 快速切换版块

电力研学论坛

 找回密码
 立即加入

QQ登录

只需一步,快速开始

搜索
查看: 74502|回复: 37
收起左侧

[注意] Electricity Market...Is it really good for us?

[复制链接]
最佳答案
0 

该用户从未签到

发表于 2007-6-28 09:24:50 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
快速获得阅读权限、下载权限、提升会员组攻略【新手必看】2016-03-03更新

马上加入,结交更多好友,共享更多资料,让你轻松玩转电力研学社区!

您需要 登录 才可以下载或查看,没有帐号?立即加入

x
There has been quite some voice about electricity market in the forum lately. I thought to take this opportunity to stir up some hot discussions. Here is a little of my thoughts..

Electricity is not a comodity but a necessity. The main issue is you can't store electricity. The whole fundation of an electricity market is the old trick of Supply and Demand. But you can't do that with electricity. Say, for instance, if the electricity price is high low today, can you buy more electricity to save for the future? You can't. Same with the reverse, if the electricity is very expensive today, are you going to shut down your factory, ask your workers to go home and come work only during the night when the electricity price is low? You can't.
What electricity market has brought about is an arena for the major generation companies to flex their muscles by manipulating the supply-demand curve. When the price is low, they can stop generating to push the price. The system operator, at the end, has very litlle, if any, control over the dispatch of generations. Why? Because that is against the objective of free trade. In my country, because the system operator has limited control over the generators, it ended up haveing to purchase side procurements, e.g. frequency keeping, security reserve, reactive power management etc. just to keep the network running. What was initially promised for lesser regulations, more flexible and open access by implementing an electricity market has now turned into more rules, more impedament and on top of it all, the electricity price has never decreased!
What is important with necessity such as electricity is economical development and equal right to use it. Because the investment of electricity infrastructure is so high that it is not acccessible by general public. they market players will always be limited to those with ample fiunds. At the end, what you will get from the market is the parties with more resources monopolosing the arena. This is not so much difference with the oil industry, is it? We have to think carefully, do we really want to go there?
Because the market is suppose to be free, naturally the palyers will maximise profits by having to invest the least ammount of capital to supply energy. What eventually happen is that the network is stripped down to its skeleton. Now, many countries who has a market are implementing more rules and regulations in order to avoid under-investment from companies. What this has brought about is more confusion, more finger pointing and the jobs not being done. Many companies are having the dilemma between the CEO and the engineers. The CEO has to report to the board members to make the most money, the engineers know that cutting the system safe operating margins is going to come back to bite us someday.
When the network is in crisis, who is going to step-in to lead? If supply and demand are tight, exisiting players will be happily sitting in the background enjoying the high price. Who will think for the public? Who are going to build generations to bring the price down. The public can't afford this. This is a game only for the rich and powerfuls.
For those who are considering implementing electricity market, or those already in the market: please be prudent. You may be spending the money which belongs to the future generations...
Personally, I don't want to be remembered as the generation who brought down the electricity network.

评分

参与人数 1专家分 +5 金币 +5 收起 理由
cepsc + 5 + 5 very good!

查看全部评分

楼主热帖
真诚赞赏,手留余香
帖文化:【文明发帖 和谐互动】 社区精神:【创新、交流、互助、共享】
回复 呼我

使用道具 举报

最佳答案
0 
  • TA的每日心情
    奋斗
    2017-7-15 13:34
  • 签到天数: 5 天

    连续签到: 1 天

    [LV.2]偶尔看看I

    发表于 2017-7-1 16:45:07 | 显示全部楼层
    It is well-being that multiple electricity companies compete with each other for a robust and active market atmosphere. In the U.S., for instance, with entities obeying federal laws, regional companies take responsibility of regional power markets, like PJM, NYSIO and CAISO etc. Customers from different areas can select which company that they are glad to pay for to get electricity supply. However, in China, State Grid and SPG nearly rule the whole market which is nearly the same scale with the U.S. Monopoly locks the price and customer even has no way to blame or complain. I think China is not central economy anymore.
    真诚赞赏,手留余香
    帖文化:【文明发帖 和谐互动】 社区精神:【创新、交流、互助、共享】
    最佳答案
    0 
  • TA的每日心情
    奋斗
    2017-4-9 09:13
  • 签到天数: 21 天

    连续签到: 1 天

    [LV.4]偶尔看看III

    发表于 2017-4-1 09:03:10 | 显示全部楼层
    My foreign colleagues tell me they would be accused by the customers if the meters supplied by us are mostly with the positive accuracy error.However it is common in our country and even become a term of the contract.
    真诚赞赏,手留余香
    [发帖际遇]: Dr布兰登上论坛勤快,奖励 学分2 点. 幸运榜 / 衰神榜
    帖文化:【文明发帖 和谐互动】 社区精神:【创新、交流、互助、共享】
    最佳答案
    0 

    该用户从未签到

     楼主| 发表于 2007-6-28 12:45:30 | 显示全部楼层

    回复 #2 Tms320 的帖子

    Good on you!!!
    May each of us do a little something to stop the accountants from ruling the world.
    真诚赞赏,手留余香
    帖文化:【文明发帖 和谐互动】 社区精神:【创新、交流、互助、共享】
    最佳答案
    0 

    该用户从未签到

    发表于 2007-7-8 06:55:10 | 显示全部楼层

    回复 #3 rickmao 的帖子

    it seems that you guys prefer the general public pay the ridiculous high price resulting from the monopoly if no markets involved?
    I am new to this, but I got this impression from your posts. tks.
    真诚赞赏,手留余香
    帖文化:【文明发帖 和谐互动】 社区精神:【创新、交流、互助、共享】
    最佳答案
    0 

    该用户从未签到

    发表于 2007-7-8 22:35:03 | 显示全部楼层
    Could some classmates introduce the status of the foreign electricity market?
    I think we shouldn't discuss the domestic market anymore because the government had already declared the electricity system( electricity power grid) must be under the control of it.To this extent,it sort of recognizes the monopolistic position of the power grid and it is hopeless to count on the monopoly to reform itself actively!

    评分

    参与人数 1专家分 +5 金币 +5 收起 理由
    cepsc + 5 + 5 stir up some hot discussions

    查看全部评分

    真诚赞赏,手留余香
    帖文化:【文明发帖 和谐互动】 社区精神:【创新、交流、互助、共享】
    最佳答案
    0 

    该用户从未签到

    发表于 2007-7-9 00:37:35 | 显示全部楼层

    回复 #5 haohao 的帖子

    Electricity markets are at different stages in the development in the Western, but all are on the good track, according to my own understanding. What material you need? Probably I can help. Also you can find useful information from public sources. I would like to know and will watch closely how the domestic market develops...

    评分

    参与人数 1专家分 +5 金币 +5 收起 理由
    cepsc + 5 + 5 stir up some hot discussions

    查看全部评分

    真诚赞赏,手留余香
    帖文化:【文明发帖 和谐互动】 社区精神:【创新、交流、互助、共享】
    最佳答案
    0 

    该用户从未签到

    发表于 2007-7-9 09:27:30 | 显示全部楼层
    回复 #6 weizhou 的帖子
    I am just wondering how the foreign electricity companies run their business? How about the instance of US?
    My foreign colleagues tell me they would be accused by the customers if the meters supplied by us are mostly with the positive accuracy error.However it is common in our country and even become a term of the contract.
    真诚赞赏,手留余香
    帖文化:【文明发帖 和谐互动】 社区精神:【创新、交流、互助、共享】
    最佳答案
    0 

    该用户从未签到

    发表于 2007-7-10 11:24:54 | 显示全部楼层

    回复 #7 haohao 的帖子

    I am not sure if the information from Wikipedia help answer your question about the meter accuracy, but I am attaching the llink and the content below.  BTW, I am positive that the links it provides at the end on that page (if you open the link) should be helpful.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter

    Electricity meter
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Typical US domestic electricity meter An electric meter or energy meter is a device that measures the amount of electrical energy supplied to a residence or business. These are customers of an electric company.

    The most common type is more properly known as a (kilo)watt-hour meter or a joule meter. Utilities record the values measured by these meters to generate an invoice for the electricity. They may also record other variables including the time when the electricity was used.

    Contents [hide]
    1 Unit of measurement
    1.1 Other units of measurement
    2 Types of meter
    2.1 Electromechanical meters
    2.1.1 Technology
    2.1.2 Reading
    2.1.3 Accuracy
    2.2 Solid state meters
    2.2.1 Technology
    2.2.2 Communication technologies
    2.2.3 Automatic reading
    2.2.4 Design
    2.2.4.1 Power supply
    2.2.4.2 Metering engine
    2.2.4.3 Processing and communication section
    2.2.4.4 RTC and other add-on modules
    3 Multiple tariff (variable rate) meters
    3.1 Domestic usage
    3.1.1 United Kingdom
    3.2 Commercial usage
    4 Smart meters
    5 Prepayment meters
    6 Time of use metering
    7 Power export metering
    8 Ownership
    9 Location
    10 Connection
    11 Tampering and security
    12 See also
    13 References
    14 External links
    真诚赞赏,手留余香
    帖文化:【文明发帖 和谐互动】 社区精神:【创新、交流、互助、共享】
    最佳答案
    0 

    该用户从未签到

    发表于 2007-7-10 12:56:00 | 显示全部楼层
    Thanks a lot to Weizhou!
    I think you could misunderstand my question(Maybe my question is ambiguous). I just ask how the foreign Utilities of electricity sector operate their business. Any example would be appreciated. I think it must be a big distinction with their Chinese counterpart.


    The company I work for is the biggest supplier of energy meters(Gas,Water,Electricity) in the world.I am in the department of electricity meter.
    真诚赞赏,手留余香
    帖文化:【文明发帖 和谐互动】 社区精神:【创新、交流、互助、共享】
    最佳答案
    0 

    该用户从未签到

     楼主| 发表于 2007-7-12 10:29:10 | 显示全部楼层

    回复 #4 weizhou 的帖子

    To answer your question, yes I personally prefer central control of electricity. Things and issues are much more straight forward then. The network is either good or bad, effiecieny or lossy. With the market, too many players are invovled and everything becomes politicaly. Everything becomes ambiguous, and while the engineering work has not changed, the administrative process becomes very lengthy, decission never seems to be reached. You shall say that with a fair play and transparent policy. thou shall not profiteer in the market. However, can you give me an example of such a market? You made a comment that the electricity price under monopoly is ridiculously high. Well, can I ask the reverse? Aren't the electricity price high now? What have we really achieved with the market?

    Please don't misunderstand me, I am not against democracy or anti-industry or anti-freewill. What I am against are those who fly these banners for their selfish course. I strongly despise those who deceived the public and let true nobleness whrilled in vain.

    I know my reply is not vivid enough and sounds unsophisticated. I hope to compile some information regarding this. But it may take some time.

    Here is a commentary paper in Wall Street Journal regarding the cascade blackout in New York. In this case, it doesn't matter if the author is renowned; as I believe every members of the public has the right to say somehting about this.

    Electricity is a federal issue_William Hogan.zip

    16.87 KB, 下载次数: 7, 下载积分: 专家分 -5 点, 学分 -5 点

    真诚赞赏,手留余香
    帖文化:【文明发帖 和谐互动】 社区精神:【创新、交流、互助、共享】
    最佳答案
    0 

    该用户从未签到

     楼主| 发表于 2007-7-12 10:42:19 | 显示全部楼层
    Here is another paper discussing the efficiency of Electricity market

    Effective Market Monitoring in Deregulated Electricity Markets.pdf

    437.46 KB, 下载次数: 10, 下载积分: 专家分 -5 点, 学分 -5 点

    真诚赞赏,手留余香
    帖文化:【文明发帖 和谐互动】 社区精神:【创新、交流、互助、共享】
    您需要登录后才可以回帖 登录 | 立即加入

    本版积分规则

    招聘斑竹

    小黑屋|手机APP(beta)|Archiver|电力研学网 ( 赣公网安备 36040302000210号 赣ICP备12000811号-1) |网站地图

    GMT+8, 2019-8-24 09:54

    Powered by Discuz! X3.4 Licensed

    © 2001-2017 Comsenz Inc.

    快速回复 返回顶部 返回列表